Testimony Of Former NRA Treasurer Woody Phillips

In the New York case, Woody Phillips has moved to keep certain evidence (such as his taking the 5th a zillion times) out of the trial. To document the motion, he had to file his prior testimony.

His testimony in the bankruptcy case. By our count, he took the Fifth over 330 times! This is the treasurer which the board of directors has never even had the guts to investigate.

P.29 (leaving out attorneys’ objections):

“Q. I don’t know if I — I don’t think I asked the specific question. But did Mr. LaPierre ever ask you to see an IRS Form 990 form?

A. I decline to answer based on the privilege provided to me by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.”

P. 36:

“Q. Do you know whether the NRA had any process for determining who should receive a corporate credit card?

A. I decline to answer based on the privilege provided to me by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.”

P. 46:

“Q. Around the time that you left the NRA, you signed a post employment consulting contract; is that correct?

“A. I decline to answer based on the privilege provided to me by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.”

P. 97: Millie Hallows billed her son’s wedding expenses to NRA. Phillips says he never heard about the wedding.

Deposition 1 in New York case:

P. 70: upon retiring from NRA he got a consulting contract giving him 5 months at $30,000 a month plus expenses.

P. 100: from 2015 to when he retired in 2018, “My time was split between Dallas, Virginia, and other travel.” It was split “Probably I would go 60/Dallas, 40/Virginia.”

“Q. Did the NRA pay for your travel expenses commuting back and forth between Texas and Virginia?

A. Yes.”

P. 102:

“Q. Was Mr. LaPierre aware of your living arrangement, uh, between Dallas and Vienna?

A. I don’t know.”

P. 103:

“Q. Well, it would seem to me to be a big deal, CFO of the organization is now living in Dallas, and I would think the EVP would want to know that the CFO lives thousands of miles away.

A. I don’t know the answer to that either.”

P. 119:

“Q. So while while you were CFO and Treasurer of the NRA, you did not know who reviewed and approved Mr. LaPierre’s expense reports; is that correct?

A. I knew they were done in ILA.”

P. 144-5: Gayle Stanford was the “private travel agent,” arranging leased jet trips for LaPierre and some others. It sounds like she was billing thousands a month and double-dipping by invoicing both NRA and NRA-ILA.

P. 148:

“Ms. Stanford testified that she was directed not to include underlying documentation with her invoices for private flights. Is that accurate?

True to the best of my knowledge.”

P. 149-51: NY attorney produces a private jet invoice for LaPierre and guests sent to Stanford, and the invoice she then sent to NRA. The difference is that she deleted Grand Island NE (where Mrs. LaPierre’s niece lives) and Nassau, Bahamas, in the one she sent NRA. P. 152, Wilson says she told her sometimes to omit locations out of security concerns.

P. 172-73: “Accountable plan” is an IRS term for a plan that properly reimburses expenses without them being classed as income.

“Q. Did the NRA follow an accountable plan when it came to Mr. LaPierre’s expenses, for example, with respect to private air travel?

A. I don’t know if there are any particulars about private air travel versus — versus other. So I — I don’t know.”

Q. Did the NRA have any rules in place to determine LaPierre’s expenses had a proper business connection?

A. No.”

P. 185-onward. He is asked about Brad O’Leary. NRA had fundraising contracts with his company, PM Consulting. David Stanton/McKenzie bought PM Consulting from O’Leary, changed the names, and split them into three companies.

(Jumping ahead to p. 300- , NY produces an NRA agreement with Brad O’Leary, after he sold his company to David McKenzie, giving O’Leary $20,000 a month. Phillips says the reason was “They were — they were moving a substantial amount of business away from Mr. O’Leary, that he’d made a lot more money than $20,000 a month from.”)

P. 194-6: Phillips is shown a letter with his signature saying that MMP (owned by McKenzie) has a contract with NRA for $400,000/year but has been invoicing $961,850. Phillips says he has no recall of the letter, maybe someone used the signing machine to sign it.

P. 203 and following: he testifies that the PR firm Ackerman McQueen would invoice for out of pocket expenses related to travel, and NRA would pay them. This was done for security, “We just wanted the, uh, files about on certain travel to be, uh, put in a place where it was less likely to be — be seen by people with, you know, bad intentions.”

“Q. Did you have more faith in a third-party vendor to maintain the security and confidentiality of your information than your own people at the NRA headquarters?

A. Yes, for certain — certain kinds of information.”

Gayle Stanford was given $4,000 a month by Ackerman, which billed it to NRA (letting her double-dip).

P. 215- . An Ackerman invoice for $151,054, covering two months.

“Q. And it just says, “Out of Pocket Expenses.” Do you see that?

A. I do.

Q. Was this typical for how out-of-pocket expenses were billed from Ackerman McQueen to the NRA?

A. I think so because the records were up in, uh, in Oklahoma City (at Ackerman’s HQ).”

(So all the data on travel is being laundered through Ackerman, with them holding the real records and no one in NRA HQ able to monitor spending. Supposedly out of security concerns, because HQ can’t be trusted.)

Part two of deposition:

P. 282: Discussion of NRA buying a Dallas mansion for the LaPierres, which we’ve blogged elsewhere. It would cost $6.5 million, and be bought by an LLC corporation, WBB Investments, using NRA funds.

P. 283-285:

“Q. Sure. I’m just curious when you learned about this anticipated home — house purchase.

A. The reason I’m having difficulty is I never knew that they were intending to buy a house for Mr. LaPierre.

Q. What did you think LL — WBB Investments, LLC was created for?

A. For Ackerman McQueen principals to buy a house and have it available under some kind of lease terms when needed for Mr. LaPierre.”

The NY Attorney points out that Phillips signed an agreement to have NRA contribute $6.5 million into WBB Investments. The attorney asks if Phillips read this document, and he answers “I looked at it quickly and this exhibit I missed.” (A $6.5 million contract?)

P. 289: the NY attorney points out the NRA purchasing policy requiring special officer approval of contracts over $100,000.

“Q. So your entering into of the WBB Investments, LLC contract was a violation of NRA policy, correct?

A. As I said earlier, I looked at the document quickly and didn’t realize what the document was committing. I thought it was documenting what we had discussed before that I had a different understanding of.”

(This is an unbelievable claim. A $6.5 million transaction, a contract of a page or two, and he didn’t read it before signing? Why wouldn’t he have run such a contract past NRA’s attorneys? There’s no mention of that.)

P. 295-6: McKenna and Associates was a major NRA vendor. Did they even have a written contract? Phillips doesn’t know. Was any agreement given special officer approval? No.

“Q. Did you ever disclose the relationship of the McKenna arrangement with the NRA to the Finance Committee?”

A. Not formally.

Q. Did you ever informally disclose the relationship of McKenna and the NRA to the Finance Committee?

A. It’s possible.”

P. 320:

“Q. Is in fact the NRA paying for your legal costs associated with this action?”

“A. Uh, the insurance company is, not the NRA.

Q. The insurance company is paying for your legal fees through the NRA’s insurance policy; is that correct?

A. Correct.”

Wait a minute. If NRA’s insurance company is paying Phillips’s attorneys, why is NRA paying tens of million per year for Brewer to defend it? Was it that the insurance company had someone better in mind, and LaPierre decided it was worth bankrupting NRA to hang onto Brewer?